Points Logic Consolidation

Hey there! Back here to talk to you about another improvement to the platform.

Since the beginning of times, the different Memrise apps had the points system implemented in each different app separately (Android, iOS, Web). That is normal when you build any new app, you start building things and you make them work as close as possible to the specification given.

When 3 different teams implement features, there are always very slight differences of interpretations, that end up also being very small differences in implementation. Most of the times these differences are not even appreciable, but they exist.

We are consolidating all the points logic together in order to remove those small differences, make the system completely consistent regardless of the platform and to allow us to iterate faster, just changing the code once, instead of three times.

In the next few weeks you might see, in different platforms, how points are treated slightly different as how they are now. Nothing to be scared of! We are comparing the three platforms and making it fair, cohesive and consistent :slightly_smiling_face:

This should not raise any problem, but should you find something really bad (aside from the really small differences that you might notice on how certain points are being treated) please do let us know.

Kindest,
Jesus

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Not what you had in mind, I know ( :upside_down_face:), but this caught my eye this morning when reviewing my Spanish (Spain) 1:

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Some observations @JBorrego, some of which I’ve mentioned before but may have been lost in the mists of time.
[Some directly relating to point scoring and others are indirectly related.]

  1. I have suggested (advocated) that the points scored in a “Week” and “Month” should be a rolling “7 days” and rolling “4 weeks”.

a) It is a better indication of use
b) It is a better indication of consistency.
c) It would be really helpful for creators of courses
d) It would allow us to see if a creator has been active in the last 4 weeks before asking to become a contributor to a possible abandoned course.
e) It would remove the peculiar situation where one’s score for a week can be 7 times higher than the score for a month (assuming the same number of points every day.)

  1. I don’t know if this still exists (and I’m relying on memory) but there is one inconsistency between the Android App point scoring and the Web scoring but when reviewing (watering) items.

a) On the App one gets an increasing score up to 150 but once one has fully watered, any over-watering (for whatever reason) gets 45 points.
b) On the Web one get the same increasing score, but when over-watering one continues to get the maximum 150 score.

I am not saying which should be your policy, but the web allows for a rapid increase in points - especially on cheat courses.

  1. Scoring - I may be wrong but I think on the web when a new item (word or phrase) is introduced, and answered correctly (by prior knowledge or inspired guess) one gets awarded 45 points, but not on the App.

  2. Incidental, I think when one answers a video clip correctly on the App, one does not see the points scored nor the flower grow, but I think we do on the web (which is better).

  3. [The scoring and growing flower is, I think, nicer on the web than the App.]

Hope that helps and if you need me to investigate or clarify, get in touch.

Speed review mode in Android app now costs three times more than before (50 vs 150 max points per item) and seems like timer has become more lenient. I like speed reviews, doing them a lot, and I most certainly can live with new points system, but in my view it’s not fair to get so many points for this exercise.

That’s interesting. I’ve been using SR a whole lot lately, but I have never seen more than 50 points. That said, I only do SR after having finished all words up for review in a “regular” review session …

I’m on 2.94_19853, BTW, but I just checked and saw that there is an update (in the queue now), so, as opposed to me, you might already be using the latest version and the change occurred there.

That said, I would bet that, in earlier versions, SRs didn’t have any influence on the SRS-status of an item. However, if you use SR a lot now, you’ll never see words come up for review that you reviewed via SR (which I find quite annoying).

If the app now gives you those 150p during a SR-session, that could be connected to Memrise doing all sorts of re-wiring behind the curtains which - probably inadvertently - affects the points rewarded.

@JBorrego: are you guys aware of this?

not related to this thread but we will look at it and verify if they have been achieved as we expect them to be or not. Thanks!

Hey DW7 we are only tackling here the consolidation of points for all platforms. Some will come first and then the rest will follow but as explained this will allow to tweak them at the same time for all platforms and iterate a lot faster and mainly… fairer.

There are many factors implied on scoring a test: the test type, the prompt, the mode, the word streak, the session streak, multipliers when things happen. All this will be the same for all very soon. Android has almost finalised the integration with our new system.

But this has nothing to do with animations, flowers or how things look, just to clarify.

Thanks for this one! so this should be consequence of the change indeed. We were scoring them in different ways in different platforms and now we have integrated with the centralised library. Now we can tweak this and make it fairer so we will be trying to do that after we consolidate. I will raise your concern (150 for one test could be fine but I understand in a SR session with 50 items the difference accumulates) and see what we do about it.

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Hi Jesus,

Thanks. That person disappeared from the course leaderboard a couple of days ago but their user profile is still there to see.

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My version is 2.94_20037.

Could you put down here your new points system, so we all know what you are consider fair?

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Apart from the change with speed reviews (I now get 150p for items as well), the learning sessions now award more points, too. I used to get exactly 420p for learning three new words. Now I get >700p.

And, last but not least, you also get more points for difficult word sessions.

Regular review sessions do not seem to be affected. At least not the ones for words that are up for review (I rarely do sessions without anything to be reviewed).

I’m afraid it has nothing to do at all with fair points system. There was no need to make 150 points reward for speed review item or for other changes, especially to cripple points system that way so to make it fair aftewards. Memrise will award more points, so the users would think that they are learning something. Just another marketing bullshit, but it’s a new normal here.

As I explained… we haven’t changed the system. We are consolidating the different platforms into one place that we can THEN change should we consider it needs changing. There is no new system. Just a consolidation of the points code into a unique library.

I continuously see accusations from you to us being dishonest and doing strange things in the background. It is not very nice to put it very nicely @Hombre_sin_nombre

It would be great if we weren’t non stop accused of strange conspirations against our users.

Kindest,
Jesus

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I don’t know what you mean by consolidation, but you’ve already changed points system as it was pointed out by Olaf and me. Why are you calling it consolidation? Why are you denying that you have not changed it?

So there’s a big IF, and this illogical points system is here to stay. Well done.

Maybe I’m overpessimistic about you, but most of the things you have done in the past are only making it worse, like your new dashboard view. Maybe your team is super green and naive, and you can’t tell good decision from bad. Perhaps, that’s true. Anyways, most of the times you just going downwards, it’s really bad if you can’t see it.

Hi @JBorrego, sorry if it’ already been mentioned …

When reviewing and getting it wrong on the App, the next correct answer gets 45 points.

When reviewing and getting it wrong on the web, the next correct answer only gets 15 points.

(This is different to my point 2 > above <)