Memrise is dead. Let's get together and build an alternative

site-feedback

(Geil) #82

I lived in Austria for 16 years lad. I know what Geil means… you need to relax and listen to some good music.


(Overlord Hydroptère) #83

so people,

anyone an idea, how to add a permantent forum window in the anki desktop, or something similar?

(i’ve created and I am takinge some courses on Cerego, but I find the cerego manner a bit slow, and the site displays somehow too much “patronising”/ Gängelung, so to say - also does not have a way of communicating with other users)


(ramajana) #84

It is a bit hypocritical to use memrise forum for this discussion…

Like, what if all colleagues come to your own office, badmouth you and talk about how to replace you with someone who would do better job than you. You probably wouldn’t like that.

There are free forums everywhere… there is private messaging… whatever. Probably that anki thing has forum of their own…

I get that you made many courses, put many hours in this, but still you do not own memrise. You can try to nagotiate if you can, but if you can not… download your staff, delete your courses if you think that should be done and move it to better place that works just as you like and listen to every suggestion you have.


(Ziutek) #85

How do we “download our stuff”?


(Xvg11) #86

The word ‘hypocritical’ means behaving in a way that contradicts your stated beliefs or feelings, i.e. your words and actions don’t match, and I don’t think it applies in this case. Cos is able to defend himself, so I’m not going to do that for him, but this post that he made is entirely consistent with his other statements while he has been on Memrise, so whatever it may be, it is not hypocritical.

Having said that, I want to correct a couple of mistakes in your statement.

There is no private messaging here on Memrise. The Discourse system gives the Admins great power. They can read all of our so-called “private” messages at will. The Discourse system also allows staff to impersonate us on the forum, and post messages in our names, as if we had posted them ourselves. They are in full control, and we have no privacy or protection from them here. So if we want to discuss something, we might as well do it in public.

Memrise removed the ability to download courses. It used to be here, but they deliberately removed it, probably to make it harder to move it to other services.

Memrise doesn’t always let you delete your courses. If it is a popular one, they will take it over, and continue it, even against your wishes. When a user has complained about this in the past, they pointed to the “terms of service” that grant them an irrevocable right to do whatever they want with anything you have ever posted. I have seen several members quit over the years because of this policy.


(Overlord Hydroptère) #87

especially the feature giving the “leaders” unlimited powers over the messages and profiles of others, is … beyond reason … well…

however, it does not make sense to argue with those seeing the world in their own black and white - the black and white being defined by them or by those they “trust and listen to”… they cannot but attack all those not sharing unconditionally their own views (“who is not with us is against us”). To even think about ways of making something different/better/think in general otherwise, is anathema to such people. So they will insult and kick around and then “complain” your skin is thin… or something…


#88

Is this actually the reality?


#89

They express militant antimemrise beliefs, but they are not leaving it. So I think that fits into the definition.


(Xvg11) #90

You’re mistaken. Cos has not been on Memrise forums since he was last active in this thread, several months ago. I don’t think he was banned, so assuming his absence is voluntary, his actions are consistent with his words.

Besides which, respect is a two way street, and if Memrise wants its users to treat it respectfully, then it must likewise treat its users with respect. Deceiving us, changing things for the worse, taking away capabilities after members have purchased non-refundable subscriptions, and many other actions too numerous to mention, is not treating its customers with respect.

I have been here since shortly after the site was started, about five years, and in that time, I only ever saw Cos express pro-user frustration provoked by Memrise’s lack of respect for its users, who, after all, are the ones who create the majority of content that Memrise is selling. So I would not characterize his posts as “militant antimemrise beliefs,” but rather vocal pro-user advocacy.


#91

We are talking about all the people that supported the inition, not just him.


(Xvg11) #92

Neither Cos, who started this thread, nor the others who have contributed to it are hypocritical.

This thread is an expression of despair and frustration over the direction that Memrise is obviously headed in, and a discussion about how to build something better. This is the most logical and appropriate forum for that discussion, since everyone here, by their very presence, has an interest and stake in Memrise, or a site to be created that fulfills Memrise’s original promise.

Do not make the mistake of believing that Memrise is a person, and that we can hurt its feelings if we speak about its shortcomings frankly, or make it feel ‘sad’. It is a corporation, a legal fiction. It has no emotions, and feels no sorrow, no disappointment, and no remorse for its actions.

As a business, it has a duty to treat its customers fairly, honor its commitments to us, and obey relevant law. And its employees are charged with fulfilling that duty daily in their interactions with us.

In fact, we are doing them a service by talking openly this way, and they should welcome our honest feedback, and take heed of our disappointment and dissatisfaction with their behavior in recent months, because without customers, they will not be in business for very long.


(ramajana) #93

I understand. But then, we should be all running away. If they have and exercise their power… I have to ask myself first did you really wrote this post or someone else did it under your name.

As I said, I understand you put your time in this. I made few courses for my sons too. And they are not even serious big courses, and it still took time to make it (and learn how to make them)… but we all came here to learn and to make our own courses using their algorithms, resources, ideas, platforms (how much time it took to make that, to make it work with growing community)… I get that you don’t like it… but things change with time. What was good enough 5 years ago it is not good enough now in some ways. So the owner of the platform changed it. They are taking time to make app more appealing so they could make some money, why whining… I don’t care what app looks like… they can have kittens if they want… if it lets me learn. It is not mine to make decisions… I just want it to work what it should work.

You can still be free user learning if you want. No one is pushing you to pay. They are pushing their ads about premium features, but you don’t have to buy it.

Instead of this one should post in bug section about their problems or try to adjust their courses to work in new platform, or if not satisfied… turn around and put their courses on some other platform where they would be appreciated and their contribution cherished.


(Xvg11) #94

@ramajana

You started your comment by saying that you understand, but then everything you wrote afterwards demonstrates that you don’t understand at all.

What you are saying is that we should be quiet and never complain about being treated dishonestly and unfairly, and that if we don’t like it here, we should leave quietly.

That point of view that you express is so alien to me, that I don’t believe we can have any sort of productive conversation about the subject.

You seem to believe that the customers of a business have only two permissible choices, either be quiet and accept a poor service that is completely different from what they were originally offered and bargained for, or be quiet and stop dealing with the business.

I disagree.

In the US, UK, and EU, customers have the right to complain publicly about the quality of services they receive, even while they remain customers of the business. They do not have to be quiet and accept whatever the business does to them, or be quiet and leave.

Good business that want to satisfy their customers often invest a lot of money in customer satisfaction surveys, and focus groups. Customer feedback is a valuable asset of a business. Any business that wants to succeed will always be honest with its customers, never mislead them, and will always correct their mistakes when their customers complain.

Many of the most active course creators of Memrise have already quit, and that is a great loss to all of the users who remain. And if everyone followed your suggestion to be quiet or leave, Memrise would lose one of the most valuable assets it has, its most committed and active users and the ones most likely to promote its services.

In fact, I think that with all of the changes and deceptions in the past few months, more of the course creators are getting disgusted, and are on the verge of leaving quietly. Maybe you will get your wish after all, but I doubt that you will like the result.


(Geil) #95

Nobody says you don’t have the right to complain. Just pointing out that trying to build a new app while advertising it on their forum is madness and petty, and the reasons for such, are just as petty. There is a difference between constructive criticism and down right rudeness. How should they respond in this thread? I mean come on…

If you want to make a new app and better service, then do it. But you are here still because I suspect there really is not a better alternative to Memrise with the features it has (many of it being free) such as building your own courses, and the selection of languages one has to them…


(Xvg11) #96

@geil As I already explained, as it is an artificial entity, a business has no emotions, thus it is impossible to be rude to a business.

It is not “rude” to use a facebook group to discuss making alternatives to facebook, or to use twitter to look for people who want to make a better “tweeting” service, or to use a telephone to converse with a group of friends about possibly forming your own telephone company.

But if you were actually being fair to Cos and the people frustrated with Memrise’s recent conduct, you would admit that nothing in this thread is actually advertising a competing product or making concrete plans for a competing product to Memrise, as you falsely accuse.

If Cos had received any serious offers of assistance about making a competing product, the discussions would obviously have been conducted elsewhere.

Be honest, and admit that he was expressing despair and frustration, and some signs of grief over the loss of the Memrise that he knew and loved.

There is nothing rude about that, and I think you know it.


Tengo vs soy
(Geil) #97

I stopped reading right there.


(Ultra-Sadist Delinquent) #98

Another way to phrase that is that it is impossible to be rude to an idea, you can only criticize it, try to break off any dead branches from it and nourish it (back) to health and let it hopefully grow straight and strong.

“The strongest oak tree of the forest is not the one that is protected from the storm and hidden from the sun. It’s the one that stands in the open where it is compelled to struggle for its existence against the winds and rains and the scorching sun.”


(Lurajane) #99

Y’all might be interested in knowing that Cos continued this discussion off-site. Directions are on his Memrise profile.

I think Ramajana has a point, but that’s a whole other conversation.


(Ultra-Sadist Delinquent) #100

That didn’t go anywhere it seems.

Back on topic, someone posted this here a while ago:
http://making.duolingo.com/how-we-learn-how-you-learn

That seems a nice algorithm to use, the code used:

What do you think @mxl?


(Drew) #101

That’s a very useful bit of information, there. I’ve previously looked at space repetition stuff and never came across this one. Thanks for sharing @Arete_Hime