Is it because the student with most points did it in one sitting whereas the others did their learning over a number of short sessions???
If they just started with the course, four days is enough to lose all words in memory. When a word is rehearsed successfully, this timespan will obviously increase.
Possibly, yes. And a couple of days ago, hence he’s supposed to start doing reviews now.
I would also like to add that in my opinion, points are for motivation; they’re not grades.
Thanks … so would you say a target of points is good each week but I need to emphasize that little and often is much much better than 24 mins the night before our lesson!!!
This is what the student in first place did and is very proud of getting the points but I feel his learning is not equivalent to the 2nd and 3rd place students.
He learned the most words in the shortest time with only one difficult word. He should be proud Now it’s time for reviews and see if he can remember everything he has learned, which is a different test from the initial learning (which only requires short-term memory).
There are several different ways of gaining points (eg learning and reviewing new words, reviewing words that fall due for review, doing ‘extra’ reviews before the word falls due, practicing listening skills, etc). So a simple ‘points target’ will be likely to throw up anomalies like the one in your example.
It might be better to set a target based on ratio of points to words learned (or to words in LTM) or something like that.
Thanks lordofthedeities …hahah I won’t be hard on him then!!
Thanks for that tip alanh … and I suppose after 4 days of learning it’s a bit early to see what exactly is going on … like your ratio idea … will use that plus the idea that they should ‘learn’ words little and often rather than once a week to hit a points target.
Thanks so much … your help came just in time … I have a lesson with them in a couple of hours!!!
What are you talking about?
I do NOT agree.
There is no easier system to learn NEW words on Memrise with the first 6 flower planting steps which does not accurately test your short-term memory:
- basically it is multiple choice (for many steps)
- audio listening + multiple choice (as not having to type) is a joke; everyone can almost blindly find out the correct 1 of 3 option (it may be nice as an “variety addon” and to do / hear something else); improvement User script idea: Read out loud / play audio for the given L1 English text to be able to close your eyes and blindly type the L2 foreign language word
- focus for the first multiple-choice steps is L2->L1 (easier) and not L1->L2 (harder), for the last steps it is switched
- almost no need to type / RECALL a word in the L2 target language
Someone wrote to me on DuoLingo for my Lingvist 2017 challenge:
You can learn NEW words on Memrise the easiest and do other things in parallel.
I have to agree.
For example Lingvist works quite different that it ALWAYS requires you to learn from L1->L2 and type (recall) in the L2 language.
Much much much more difficult - like a DuoLingo reverse tree.
I mass (bulk) learned new Portuguese words for PT7 for multiple levels after my Lingvist challenge ended…and honestly it was quite RELAXING (I enjoyed it and watched TV in parallel ;)) compared to my previous 2-3h / day “Lingvist Spanish learning trip”.
Basically, what the first student probably did was:
He/she watched TV, had a telephone talk, talked to boyfriend/girlfriend, did something else in parallel (or not) + learned a few words on Memrise in the “0815 button clicki bunti” way
I would say it is no problem to do it even in a “single learning session”.
Nobody shall be “proud” to be able to “learn” a few words on Memrise (or be able to half-plant steps #3-4 for 10 words on the Android app) by pressing option buttons.
I would say you almost do not have to have your brain switched ON to be able to learn 15-20 new words / day or session if I compare it to other learning styles
If you do not use the Memrise web portal but the Android app, the one typing (final) step get’s even more simple / easy as you start to receive character hints on the screen what you need to click / type in.
LTM != LTM
You can not effectively review (water):
- on the Memrise Android app (too many typing hints, too much multiple choice, too easy listening exercises, etc.)
- or the web portal if you do not turn this multiple-choice crap or “speed review” M/C stuff OFF.
- This includes the “audio listening exercises” (fine for “extra work” when everything is watered), typing improvement: User script idea: Read out loud / play audio for the given L1 English text to be able to close your eyes and blindly type the L2 foreign language word
Way too many false positives where you put your SR intervals back…without really knowing your material!
To do this, you need to install Cooljingle’s user script “all typing” and you need to activate the option, that you want to re-type answer errors (“Include Mistake Reviews”) where Memrise’s default is a one-time single multiple-choice question on an incorrect answer…too simple - does IMHO not correctly enforce re-learning.
If you get the question typing wrong for the first error repeat, you will be forced to re-type two more times vs Memrise (default update) just one multiple-choice!!! (it was ~3-7 times before the update).
If a learner wants to be further challenged, you can also activate the script for the (first Memrise) “Include learning” mode setting (which I do not make use of but stick to Memrise learning defaults).
If a student fails to (daily) regularly review words within all given SR intervals (4-5h, 12h, 1day, 6days, 12days, etc.) and put them into his/her LTM and also be able to actively RECALL the learned words in his L2 target language, he/she IMHO has failed (a bit) the previous studies (words “learned”).
There is a reason why AnkiSRS seems to create two cards per note, one front (remember), one back (production, type/recall the answer) and where the cards are mixed across the days (auto bury siblings https://apps.ankiweb.net/docs/manual.html#siblings-and-burying).
If you only train L2->L1 translations - like DuoLingo forward trees do it with a very high ratio - your learning (a language) will be highly negatively affected!
I hope Cooljingle can fix his “all typing” user script, as the last Memrise code (API) update from Wednesday 01/17/2018 has corrupted it…again.
Don’t you agree? What are your personal experiences with language learning on Memrise?
WOW … thanks so much for that … I’m on a learning curve myself as a teacher along with my students … I’ll have to re-read all that to understand how to apply what you are saying.
It made for an interesting lesson today as we discussed (in English) the logic behind the Memrise system and how it works.
We came to the conclusion that a little and often is going to give better results and you are right about my student with the most points … he was listening to music and did his learning in one long session compared to two of the others who did about 10 mins 3 times.
One question … what does “SR intervals back” mean??
Under Memrise’s Spaced Repetition System, the interval between tests on a particular word or phrase increases (up to a maximum of 180 days) with each review answered correctly. Some believe that tests other than typing tests (eg multiple choice, listening skills, etc) are too easy and, therefore, correct answers to these are “false positives” which lead to the interval before you will next be tested on that item being extended even though you may not really have fully learned it (ie the assumption is that you would have got a typing test wrong). To counter this, some of us employ an ‘all-typing’ user script (which can be switched on and off, course by course) which converts all tests to typing tests so that you don’t get multiple-choice tests during a review.
So “put your SR intervals back” means extending the interval period.
OK … I’ve learnt something new … thanks alanh … Is it only the course creator that can turn on/off the “all-typing” user script?
No. Any user can employ the all typing user script. The forum thread which explains all about it is currently near the top of the list of latest topics in the forum. It’s author (Cooljingle) has just updated the script. Edit: Actually, it’s currently immediately below this one in the index.
There is a separate tool which allows course creators to make their course ‘typing only’. It’s described here: https://memrise.helpshift.com/a/memrise-learn-a-new-language/?p=web&s=course-creation&f=how-can-i-create-a-typing-only-course-no-tapping&l=en
Incidentally, in case you don’t know the SRS review intervals, they are listed in this other forum topic: Generic document on the Memrise Learning Algorithm?
Right … I’ve got a lot to learn to keep one step ahead of my students … Great!
Thanks for the tips … going to those links now!
@HBD I have something to tell you, and it’s going to make you sad.
Memrise is not a suitable tool to use for measuring your students’ learning performance or studying effort.
Firstly, as a whole, it is not reliable, and the statistics are often broken.
Secondly, the experience that Memrise delivers through the apps is vastly different from the experience delivered over the web site, and the points granted between the two delivery methods are not comparable to one another.
Thirdly, there are numerous scripts that automate various aspects of Memrise, so that some of your students could just install a script, push a button, and appear to learn your courses without putting in any real effort, whereas another student could put in the effort, but seem to “learn” fewer words, and “earn” fewer points.
Finally, Memrise sometimes decides to perform cruel “experiments” on a random sample of its users, and actively impede and frustrate their efforts to learn. Under these circumstances, assigning Memrise as a requirement, and using its alleged “Learning Statistics” is unreliable and grossly unfair to your students.
In my opinion, in its current state, Memrise is completely unfit for formal academic use, other than as a voluntary supplement to other methods.
In case you aren’t familiar with user scripts and how to set them up, my post No 193 in this link may help. [Course Forum] French 1-7 by Memrise
Hahah … no this doesn’t make me sad … it makes the whole thing more interesting and hopefully the students WILL figure out these short comings … it has motivated a lot of discussion in the classroom which is often difficult with disdainful teenagers!
one of the links above??
Duh! Sorry. I forgot to insert the link. I’ve now added it to my previous post.
In one thread a (probably long-term) Memrise user explained in more detail how the:
- 4h / 12h
- yellow vs red incorrect answers
- and jumping back to the previous (last) before the answer error or next intervals